Jamal Jones and David McClain are changing the way men discuss grief, one conversation at a time

Jamal Jones and David McClain open up about their podcast “Getting Back Up: Finding Life After Death” and beyond.

A man sits in his car outside of work, crying so hard he can’t bring himself to go inside. Another on the subway finds himself unexpectedly overcome by a conversation about grief. Elsewhere, another guy is laughing at both the humor and the joy of realizing he’s not alone.

These are the types of reactions Jamal Jones and David McClain say their podcast has inspired, which may come as a welcome surprise in the era of the “manosphere” when two men sitting behind microphones can be a recipe for something decidedly much more toxic.

Launched in 2025, Jones and McClain’s podcast, “Getting Back Up: Finding Life After Death,” is entering a new era as the two Black widowers prepare to take their conversations about grief, fatherhood, and friendship even further.

“We see ourselves as a meaningful distraction,” McClain told theGrio during a recent interview over Zoom.

Since launching a little over a year ago, “Getting Back Up” has produced nearly 50 episodes reaching thousands of listeners, exploring everything from losing a spouse and raising children to dating, marriage, mental health, and the complicated business of moving forward. Now in its second season, the podcast has become an outlet for the two fathers to candidly discuss their experiences, often with plenty of humor, while inviting listeners into conversations that can be as heartbreaking as they are uplifting. However, the entire venture was born out of a chance encounter between the two.

Jones, who lost his first wife, Janice, in 2017 following a years-long battle with breast cancer, and McClain, whose wife, Nolani, died of uterine cancer in 2022, first met through their daughters. After the girls became friends at school, Jones’ daughter suggested their fathers meet, knowing they had something very profound in common. A birthday party at a bowling alley in 2023 finally brought the men together, and for McClain, who had never met another widower, the connection was almost immediate.

“When we sat down, we just realized there was a shorthand that we formed almost immediately,” McClain recalled.

Despite their shared experience, the two soon discovered that grief, or the fact they both lost their wives in the month of August, were hardly the only things they had in common. Their friendship quickly grew over conversations about everything under the sun, from raising daughters and relationships to music, sports, and the unexpected humor that sometimes accompanies life’s most painful experiences.

“We bonded because we’re just, you know, honestly just two good dudes who connect on being good dads, being good partners, being good men,” Jones explained.

Looking back, he noted how his daughter may have done far more than simply introduce two fathers who needed a friend.

“I don’t think my daughter realized how much she helped David and his family when she introduced us,” he said.

As their friendship grew, the thought that perhaps others could benefit from listening in on their conversations formed. However, getting the podcast off the ground proved easier said than done. According to Jones, over a year passed between their first discussion about recording together and the official launch of the show. They made a few attempts, recording in fits and starts before life got in the way.

Eventually, the two committed to making it happen, and they’ve been having those conversations behind microphones ever since. For Jones, who has since remarried, the podcast has allowed him to revisit experiences and emotions he hadn’t necessarily worked through, even years after losing his wife. Meanwhile, McClain has found himself reconsidering everything from his identity as a widower to what dating and fatherhood look like in this chapter of his life.

Their conversations have also delved into the complicated realities of marriage and the different relationships they had with their late wives. McClain has spoken fondly of his loving marriage, while Jones has been candid about the difficulties in his first marriage and the complicated grief that followed.

“The thing that Dave and I do is we talk about the things that people don’t talk about,” Jones said.

The response to those conversations has been really moving for the fathers.

“The joys for us, or I think the ‘aha moments,’ or the moments when we both felt like we have to keep doing this, are the moments when we get an inbox message or a text message, or somebody reaches out and says, ‘Hey, like that episode helped me today,’” Jones explained.

They’ve also heard from listeners navigating other forms of grief, including divorce, job loss, and beyond. The fathers, in fact, are looking to expand their focus to better include these other forms. Their conversations have also ventured into the loneliness men experience, the expectations placed on masculinity, and the challenges of maintaining meaningful friendships. For Jones, that means men holding one another accountable, especially when it comes to their relationships with women. Meanwhile, McClain believes men need to become more intentional about making time for one another.

“We have to make time for each other so that we can grow together,” he said.

Part of this has involved hosting intimate weekend retreats they call Widower Reset, which bring together small groups of widowers for three days of conversation and connection, and include a therapist and invited speakers. However, Jones and McClain participate as much as they facilitate. They’re an opportunity for widowers to meet other men who understand their experiences firsthand, something McClain himself had been searching for when he first met Jones. Seeing how others have managed to rebuild their lives can also offer some much-needed encouragement or perspective.

“Widower Reset is about connection with other men and to talk about it because then they leave knowing, ‘Oh, I see others doing it. I can do it too,’” he expressed.

The next one is set for March 19–21, 2027, while the pair are also exploring additional opportunities, such as speaking engagements and partnerships with organizations addressing men’s mental health and loneliness. They are also preparing to rebrand their growing platform and plan to introduce retreats for people experiencing other forms of loss. In fact, Jones and McClain revealed that their rebrand will partially involve expanding what they discuss to better cover grief and its many forms.

While they are, of course, a welcomed resource for Black men, they both fully recognize and embrace that grief itself knows no racial, cultural, or economic boundaries. For Jones and McClain, the ultimate goal is to encourage men to reconnect with the people already in their lives, nurture meaningful friendships, and become more comfortable opening up about their experiences.

Jones, who has lost friends to suicide, is especially conscious of the importance of checking in on the men around him and creating opportunities for honest conversations. 

“I think we don’t give each other enough credit that we’re going through the same thing,” Jones said, explaining how men often hesitate to discuss their struggles for fear of being judged.

Meanwhile, McClain really hopes listeners walk away knowing that whatever they’re experiencing, they truly don’t have to go through it alone.

“You’re not alone, and I’m here to listen, and we’re here to move forward because that’s healing.”